Thursday, October 30, 2008


(10:07 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: yes bingo
(10:07 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: a simple stop will place a market order when the stop value is hit
(10:08 PM) pupster: that will turn into a market order once it hits
(10:08 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: right
tomthetrader: moving stops to 945 ES on 10 long from 934.50
(10:08 PM) ctmhou: And hopefully the order is higher when it's hit.
(10:08 PM) pupster: did u buy in ah's Tom?
(10:09 PM) ctmhou: Tom, when the hell did you do that?
(10:09 PM) pupster: Thanks Nick....believe it or not...I kind of knew it but we were going around in circles
(10:10 PM) pupster: simple....LIMIT on upside and STOP on downside targets...
(10:10 PM) ctmhou: Exactly........
(10:10 PM) pupster: Tom did u buy at the mkt close or in AH's
(10:10 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: yup
(10:10 PM) pupster: cool
(10:10 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: I know that is a big source of confusion because stop is really a dump term for it
(10:11 PM) pupster: yep
(10:15 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Now are you going to ask how to do a trailing stop on the upside?
(10:15 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: just to make it more confusing
(10:15 PM) pupster: lol
(10:16 PM) pupster: when the time comes we'll go over it
(10:17 PM) ctmhou: Nick, after your explanation of the option webinar, my brain crossed...
(10:17 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: I'd be happy to give you some one-on-one tutoring anytime
(10:18 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Hey is website down for anyone else?
(10:18 PM) ctmhou: I'm not sure you would have the patience, Nick.
tomthetrader: After hours late
(10:19 PM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Well, the offer stands anytime. I enjoy teaching.
(10:19 PM) pupster: u bought late in AH's...?
(10:20 PM) ctmhou: Thanks, Nick. When I'm ready, I'll let you know. Just learning futures right now.
tomthetrader: (9:30 PM) ctmhou: Well, the ES is having fun at the moment.
tomthetrader: yes China Taiwan etc trying to get us back to even
tomthetrader: Time for baseball ...check back in 45 minutes ...I am long 10 ES
(10:21 PM) ctmhou: Damn Tom. What the heck was I looking at..................
tomthetrader: (9:31 PM) ctmhou: We should thank them.......OH, we do by buying everything from them.
tomthetrader: so I have a stop close on both sides
(9:32 PM) ctmhou: Lidge can come in and get a save. What a career turnaround for him.
tomthetrader: E-MINI S&P 500 Dec ’08 21:21:33 EDT 939.00 12.00 927.75
tomthetrader: Yes Fun for him to comeback
(10:22 PM) ctmhou: Am I reading a negative divergence in th e2 min chart on ES?
tomthetrader: so it was just before 9:00pm and we have taken off
(10:22 PM) pupster: ok
(10:23 PM) pupster: great job
(10:23 PM) ctmhou: 10 contracts...............I could have been done for the week. Shoot!
tomthetrader: very aggressive on the world cuts
tomthetrader: very bullish all countries working together
tomthetrader: not isolationism
tomthetrader: extremely bulllish
tomthetrader: but we are not back to our highs
(10:24 PM) pupster: Nick.....I would love to follow you every move on CHAT for TRADERS only to shoot foe a double every quarter......
(10:25 PM) ctmhou: Tom, is the ES after hours working like the ES should work during hours? No radical movement in 5 min timeframes?
(10:25 PM) pupster: how could we make CHAT so that those who wanted to do the same follow you in this way without staering away
tomthetrader: Yes ....I can be done ///I have 13 prfessional traders who work on their own and only call me ...and they make 100 -1 million per year
tomthetrader: they wer in here in 05-07
tomthetrader: you can become very successful
(10:25 PM) pupster: and do it during trading hours
(10:26 PM) ctmhou: Serious? WOW!
(10:26 PM) pupster: Tom....I don't understand....
(10:26 PM) pupster: if we could double our $
(10:26 PM) pupster: like you
(10:26 PM) pupster: and follow your every move
(10:26 PM) ctmhou: I can't wait for a virtual room with you Tom.
tomthetrader: In order to really kill the market you do have to be leveraged and margined long several times a year and it is no fun
(10:26 PM) pupster: why wouldn't we want to do that?
(10:27 PM) pupster: 2x
tomthetrader: we are still looing for areas that are better than this
tomthetrader: I am going to get stopped out
(10:27 PM) pupster: yeah...but the only real trouble you've had was being stubborn to what was really going on
(10:28 PM) pupster: causing you to try and be a HERO and you knew you shouldn't have followed those emotions...
(10:28 PM) pupster: otherwise...
(10:28 PM) pupster: under normal circumstances
(10:28 PM) ctmhou: Tom, on my 2 min ES chart, MACD is going down while price is going up. Divergence?
tomthetrader: yes ...and the fact i did not give the respect deserved out of what turned out to be a much more publicized black hole the 90's greenie would have said we are OK pump some money in and gone
(10:28 PM) pupster: you are as top notch as they come
(10:29 PM) ctmhou: I like your transparency, Tom.
tomthetrader: but this time every fed and treasury / government official had to be a TV star and go to meadiaand tell America how bad it is and how bad it will get
tomthetrader: 1st time ever for that
(10:30 PM) pupster: can we structure this so that everyone who wants to double their $ can do it by easily knowing the %'s that need to be alocated for traders for specific trades during CHAT
tomthetrader: I appreciate your patience ...we will have a good run into years end with futures . options ETF's
tomthetrader: earnings plays
tomthetrader: I think the % part is the most important
tomthetrader: we are working with 200K and we size each position
tomthetrader: if you have 10K yo go in in 10% positions
tomthetrader: or 100K 10% positions
tomthetrader: we never have more than 5-8 positions
(10:32 PM) pupster: Again.....real can we keep it simple enough to follow your every move to double our money evry quarte during CHAT
tomthetrader: we daytrade for most of pour profits
tomthetrader: and swing trades are from long past ! But I hope we have one now
(10:33 PM) pupster: but TRADERS swings also...correct?
tomthetrader: Yes
tomthetrader: Easily
tomthetrader: yes
tomthetrader: if you just go thru chat the past 4 sessions ...look at the trades
tomthetrader: I was working with 110K more or less as 90 K plus tied up in losers
tomthetrader: we made 40K in 4 sessions
(10:34 PM) pupster: for TRADERS?
tomthetrader: all in our chat ...Thomas does not allow this trading at night
(10:35 PM) pupster: so with 1/2 of the TRADERS account you booked 40k
tomthetrader: (3:27 PM) thomas_Poland: Tom you made only 26k today
tomthetrader: we made over 50K in past 4 sessions with all daytrades and a few overnight with margined 2x long ETF's
tomthetrader: pretty much 50% gain in 4 sessions
tomthetrader: on cash available
tomthetrader: In a bear market long
tomthetrader: just imagine what a bull market is lioke
tomthetrader: like
tomthetrader: if we cam get a 20% rally before jan 1st we should book 1/2 million
(10:41 PM) pupster: awsome
(10:42 PM) pupster: Tom.....we need to be ULTRA clear
(10:42 PM) pupster: in CHAT so I can make a fractio of that
tomthetrader: In chat ..we cannot take a penny of anthing before there is at least 10 Traders in room in morning ...0 at night profits at all at night
tomthetrader: so everything i made tonight ..ask thomas 0 in traders
tomthetrader: I just post so others can see
tomthetrader: we can only log in profits when at least 10 Traders are active and only in the morning til 4:15pm
tomthetrader: no nights at all
tomthetrader: CRYSTAL clear and Thomas has a record of every trade and everyone has the ability to timestamp every move and record all actions here
(10:46 PM) pupster: i didn't know that as far as needing to have 10 Traders in CHAT
tomthetrader: so it is as open and transparent as any site I have ever seen
tomthetrader: and Thomas has to be one of them
tomthetrader: can't just be us at 6:00am
(10:47 PM) pupster: has there ever been a point where you would transfer any losing trades from Traders into Main...
tomthetrader: this morning we were able to get long at 5:30 am at much risk and Thomas was there and about 12 others
(10:47 PM) pupster: to free up funds?
tomthetrader: I have taken cash from the main account to "fund" the Traders account
tomthetrader: when we get hit with losses early
(10:48 PM) pupster: actually that's what i meant
tomthetrader: Like I should have done with XLKAT
(10:48 PM) pupster: be fair...
tomthetrader: now I am hamstrung
(10:48 PM) pupster: how could we try and mimic TRADERS if you can do that?
(10:49 PM) pupster: innocent question...
tomthetrader: woth 100K in unrealized and in a poor cash / leverage situation
tomthetrader: it has only happened 1x -2x in 3 years so I don't know
tomthetrader: good question ..hope it doesn't happen but it is a good question
(10:50 PM) pupster: so for the most part it's never done but can happen....
tomthetrader: yes
tomthetrader: I know it has happened but can'tremember ...yes I can it was the two crashes in FEB and Jan
tomthetrader: of 07 and 08
tomthetrader: we got nailed for big losses and had to borrow from main fund for daily trading ..we repaid and went about our usual
tomthetrader: I missed the Jan 08 fall
(10:53 PM) pupster: so....we would have been stuck if following your every move at that stage.
tomthetrader: and the FEB 07 we were short but got long too soon and got nailed
tomthetrader: actually no would have been unable to trade for about 4 days as the market came back quickly and we were back to 200K
(10:54 PM) pupster: ok...........
tomthetrader: they ..if you look on the charts were like mini crashes
(10:54 PM) pupster: ok
tomthetrader: very short and then bounced back
tomthetrader: and both early in the quarter
tomthetrader: so we always reset at 200K each quarter
tomthetrader: and that is the toughest time
tomthetrader: like baseball season or grades
tomthetrader: you need to get off to a good start
tomthetrader: buying a millionXLKAT in Sept was not a good start
tomthetrader: and if I would have used my stops we would have doubled our money already
(10:57 PM) pupster: k
tomthetrader: so poor cash managemnet and being too cocky and emotionally egotistic ...I hurt the fund
tomthetrader: and my members who had smaller accounts
tomthetrader: and I have to live with thatdaily as we have lost some good friends
tomthetrader: that took big hits with their positions and went into OCT instead of jan
tomthetrader: in options
tomthetrader: and got killed with no stops
tomthetrader: But we are OK now and back to " normal"
tomthetrader: I am off to bed
(10:59 PM) pupster: good night
tomthetrader: Hope I amswered all of your questions and glad to have you part of the least known but most knowledgeable traders group in th world
tomthetrader: we do have info / data that no one else gets
(11:00 PM) pupster: y
tomthetrader: and traders with a great feel
tomthetrader: night
(11:01 PM) pupster: nite
tomthetrader: E-MINI S&P 500 Dec ’08 22:52:32 EDT 947.25 20.25
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tomthetrader: Good morning
tomthetrader: another bright sunny cool day in Tallahassee
(8:51 AM) RV_trader: gm Tom - Where we headed today? Nice war overnight in the markets
(9:00 AM) thomas_Poland: good morning
tomthetrader: yes we have had some battle scars
tomthetrader: audio at 9:15 am
tomthetrader: sorry busy sending e-mails
tomthetrader: 962 122 ES points from bottom
tomthetrader: 15% increase
tomthetrader: HOD futures
(9:08 AM) syzygy111: y
(9:08 AM) ajayvee: y
tomthetrader: Audio check
(9:08 AM) aszag: y
(9:08 AM) breadman8401: y
(9:09 AM) thomas_Poland: Today simple strategy ... Sell the open cover on close
(9:10 AM) thomas_Poland: I trade this one ... with stops of course
(9:10 AM) jbljudy: y
(9:10 AM) thomas_Poland: and another chance to short 12:30
tomthetrader: EEV SKF QID ...look at those charts ?
(9:11 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: g morning
tomthetrader: Hi all
tomthetrader: TTT Audio in a few minutes
(9:20 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: y
(9:20 AM) bloomert: y
(9:20 AM) les13436: y
(9:20 AM) ajayvee: y
(9:20 AM) thomas_Poland: y
(9:20 AM) aszag: y
(9:20 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: YM up nicely this morning
(9:20 AM) pointfisher: y
(9:20 AM) breadman8401: y
(9:20 AM) JR Roden: No
(9:20 AM) syzygy111: y
(9:20 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: I'm up a buck in my DDM already
(9:23 AM) syzygy111: with the dem congress?
(9:28 AM) pupster1: y
tomthetrader: zf
tomthetrader: 110,000 sh
(9:28 AM) thomas_Poland: Tom only IWMKV left
(9:29 AM) thomas_Poland: at 3.75
(9:29 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Tom, do you get the flat commission on 110K shares?
(9:30 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: wow that's a great deal
(9:30 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: is that an alumni perk, or do you have a wrap acct
(9:30 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: it was up 30% yesterday
(9:30 AM) billb1947: tom-i forget-which one is zf? Is that the treasury bond fund or the bond/equity fund?
(9:30 AM) billb1947: thx
(9:31 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: 2.91 by 3.00
(9:31 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: 0 vol
(9:31 AM) thomas_Poland: tom give me all fills on MSN
(9:31 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: you're the vol
tomthetrader: 954.00 2 long
tomthetrader: stop 944
(9:35 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Wow 8.91 on adv/dec
(9:35 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: that's strength
(9:43 AM) ctmhou: When do you move the stop?
tomthetrader: added 2 long at 945 cash total of 4 long plus 50 contracts of IWM and some margined safe ZF
(9:44 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Tom do you have portfolio margining in your LegMas acct?
(9:44 AM) ctmhou: You make it sound easy.
(9:45 AM) ctmhou: ZYou must have left Legg Mason on good terms?
(9:45 AM) ctmhou: Cool
tomthetrader: sell 4 ES at 962.50
(9:47 AM) ctmhou: Was the ES a pre-determined stop?
(9:48 AM) ctmhou: Close...........
(9:48 AM) ctmhou: Gotcha
(9:48 AM) Alex1978: nice lol
(9:48 AM) ctmhou: I've always felt that.
(9:48 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: welcome alex
(9:48 AM) TraderTim: hi alex
(9:48 AM) berniectx: Welcome Alex
(9:48 AM) Alex1978: thanks for having me...looking forward to trading w/ you guys
(9:49 AM) les13436: Hi Alex
(9:49 AM) rekon8: Hi Alex
(9:49 AM) thomas_Poland: Gdynia
(9:49 AM) aszag: welcome Alex
(9:49 AM) thomas_Poland: not Gdansk
(9:49 AM) bloomert: welcome Alex
(9:49 AM) thomas_Poland: Hi Alex
(9:50 AM) Alex1978: thx for the warm welcome...
(9:50 AM) billb1947: welcome alex
(9:50 AM) ctmhou: Transparency.......
(9:50 AM) aszag: Thomas is also our enforcer
(9:51 AM) thomas_Poland: die bulls
(9:51 AM) billb1947: we are fortunate to have the king of poland as a member
(9:51 AM) TraderTim: Tom I did the 4 ES trade. I bought at bottom of channel and trendline. You sold pretty quick (as did I). could you go through your thinking on the sale (which was nice)?
(9:51 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Does anyone here know the Pristine Buy Setup ?
(9:51 AM) PhotosbyDill: Good Morning from Colorado. I will be here all day so Tom if you need anything let me know. OK?
(9:52 AM) TraderTim: gotcha 944/965 box
(9:52 AM) thomas_Poland: 928 today?
(9:53 AM) amoslynne: wanna do business
(9:53 AM) thomas_Poland: what business?
(9:53 AM) tomthetrader: tomthetrader has bounced amoslynne from the chat room
(9:53 AM) thomas_Poland: hey
(9:53 AM) thomas_Poland: I wanted to be nice for the first time in my life
(9:53 AM) thomas_Poland:
(9:53 AM) ctmhou: You're quick Today, Tom.
(9:53 AM) thomas_Poland: He is punching faster than me
(9:54 AM) thomas_Poland: hemm
(9:54 AM) thomas_Poland: hmm
(9:54 AM) thomas_Poland: I need more training
tomthetrader: Over the past four days, the S&P futures have moved a combined 160 points during the last 45 minutes of trading. Essentially, that means that the index has moved 17% over three hours of market time
tomthetrader: trading or jail time ?
tomthetrader: I'm not sure what the fundamental justification would be for adjusting the market cap of the S&P by about $1.5 trillion in three hours
(9:57 AM) thomas_Poland: and in jail this one is waiting
(9:57 AM) thomas_Poland: sell the open ..cover on close
(9:58 AM) thomas_Poland: I think we will go high tomorrow and sell off again at the close tomorrow
(9:59 AM) thomas_Poland: but today a down day
(9:59 AM) TraderTim: Tom, how about a quick lesson on using the A/D line (since it is so important)
(10:01 AM) ctmhou: I want a "SURE THING".
(10:01 AM) ctmhou: Darn
(10:03 AM) TraderTim: so when I see +2000 right now, what does it tell you?
(10:03 AM) TraderTim: is +2000 the same as 2 to 1? How is this calculated?
(10:04 AM) TraderTim: I get only NET
(10:04 AM) TraderTim: so can we chart the A/D and draw trendlines
(10:05 AM) TraderTim: I get it on my feed
(10:06 AM) berniectx: NYSE AD +2042
(10:07 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Tim, what platform are you charting on?
(10:07 AM) TraderTim: A/D using hourly over 10 day
(10:08 AM) TraderTim: I chart using Amibroker with IQFeed (same feed as THOMAS)
(10:10 AM) ctmhou: Have the futures market, in your opinion, picked up in the last few months? Or is the volume in the normal range? In other words, has futures trading becoming more of an everyday tool for traders?
(10:11 AM) TraderTim: thx Tom that was very helpful
(10:11 AM) berniectx: you are a great teacher Tom
(10:11 AM) ctmhou: Your training in a $5.00 book?
(10:16 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Is anyone here trading futures in their IRA acct?
(10:16 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Of course just when I joined!
(10:16 AM) billb1947: i am nick
(10:16 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: I agree
(10:17 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Bill what broker lets you do it?
(10:17 AM) billb1947: IB
(10:17 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Ok thx
(10:17 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: OpX doesn't allow it
(10:17 AM) TraderTim: Tom BOX lower band could be 950 now
tomthetrader: yes
tomthetrader: I will buy 1 ES long
tomthetrader: 950.00 cash 1 long
(10:20 AM) thomas_Poland: let's see if we can go down till 11 am
tomthetrader: will stop at 944.00
(10:20 AM) thomas_Poland: yep
(10:21 AM) thomas_Poland: I am bear only .. only for today
(10:21 AM) thomas_Poland: and tomorrow afternoon
tomthetrader: 2371 -444 a/d line
(10:22 AM) thomas_Poland: only ad line tom
tomthetrader: tell us what else is diverging Thomas ?
(10:23 AM) thomas_Poland: TRIN is trending higher
(10:23 AM) thomas_Poland: I use TRIN only looking at its trend
(10:24 AM) thomas_Poland: P/C 0.70
(10:24 AM) thomas_Poland: more bearish
(10:24 AM) thomas_Poland: TICK hitting -600 bearish
(10:24 AM) thomas_Poland: and my best few I don't want to mention
(10:24 AM) thomas_Poland: one of them just made me worry about my short
(10:25 AM) thomas_Poland: but because I have stop at breakeven I have no risk now
tomthetrader: I think you are in trouble /
tomthetrader: if you follow those indicators today
(10:26 AM) thomas_Poland: maybe
(10:26 AM) thomas_Poland: but no risk now
tomthetrader: if you do not smooth them out over 10 days min
(10:26 AM) thomas_Poland: and we should get 938 or even 928 ??
tomthetrader: if you don't trend those they will kill you
(10:27 AM) thomas_Poland: I tried Tom .. but now prefer to read them on the day
tomthetrader: in a bottoming market
(10:27 AM) thomas_Poland: Maybe you should teach me ??
(10:27 AM) thomas_Poland: almost 960
(10:27 AM) thomas_Poland: like last time when I took 30 and would make 60??
(10:28 AM) Alex1978: there's good support at ES 940
(10:28 AM) thomas_Poland: not much
(10:28 AM) thomas_Poland: when I try to reenter marekt moves in my direction so hard that I have no chance
(10:28 AM) berniectx: I also use NYSE Trin 10 minute with a 30 period MA which is moving up
tomthetrader: CVS
(10:30 AM) Nick_H_SanDiego: Geeze DDM just crawling down the BB's
tomthetrader: One of our 12 earnings plays this week ...over the earnings period we have hit now on 96% of our plays ! The highest EVER !!!
(10:31 AM) billb1947: bernie-i use IB as i think you do, but i can't create a 10min chart-only 5min and 15 min ?
tomthetrader: Thanks to my son for helping in the picking

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